Episode 26: The Secret to Stories That Create Emotional Connection with Minda Zetlin

Melissa Reaves, Story Fruition
Hello everyone, welcome to the Storytellers Mind Moviemakers and it is Melissa Reaves and I am so excited to be here, especially because I have a very special guest. You'll see here, Minda Zetlin and Minda Zetlin is, ready? The winner of the last story standing competition that I had the honor on February 14th of being the producer and the storytelling coach. So please,

Welcome, Minda. Hello, how are you?

Minda Zetlin (00:33.164)
I'm great and thanks for having me.

Melissa Reaves, Story Fruition (00:35.199)
Absolutely, absolutely. So I thought we would today talk about the Last Story Standing competition, how we met and our journey together, getting ready for this. But before we do that, tell us a little bit about yourself, Minda. Like, what do you do? Tell us a little more.

Minda Zetlin (00:53.944)
So even though this was a National Speakers Association first round competition, I am a speaker. I'm primarily a writer and an author. Career Self Care, which you see behind me, is my latest book. It comes out of my columns for Inc. where I'm a contributing editor and it's all about career happiness, productivity, work-life balance, and basically how to have a life you love and a good career without making yourself miserable, which we are all so good at.

Melissa Reaves, Story Fruition (01:24.005)
We're so good at it. We're so good at it. And I've seen you public speak before I even started working with you with The Last Story Standing. So I know you have an incredible message that we need to hear. We need to hear about how to do that balance because especially, because there's nothing worse than putting in all this time every single week and then exhaustion and it wasn't even fun.

Minda Zetlin (01:45.516)
Mm-hmm. Yep. I mean, you only get one life. spend an absurd proportion of it. Even if you're not Elon Musk, you spend an absurd proportion of it working as opposed to doing anything else. And if that's miserable, it's hard to have a happy life, which I think all of us deserve.

Melissa Reaves, Story Fruition (02:04.495)
I agree. And it leaks into everything too. But I mean, in your work, have you found people who have denied that they're miserable? Like they're just like machines doing it, but like to even admit that it's not even joyous anymore?

Minda Zetlin (02:20.59)
Not so much people who deny that they're miserable as people who insist that this is what's required. And unfortunately, we live in a society where that is often what's presented to us, right? I've written about, you know, in particular in the financial industry, for example, people are especially newer.

lower level people are expected to be literally available at two o'clock in the morning and they will check on you and make sure that you are. You know, I mean, that kind of nonsense happens all over the place and there's this, you know, no pain, no gain dynamic that we're all supposed to buy into and it's a lie.

Melissa Reaves, Story Fruition (03:07.013)
Well, yeah, it's total lie. And it's conditioning. It starts early. mean, it started, it's generational, right? The culture of working hard to be able to one day retire is becoming more and more and more of a myth. And I love that you're helping people wake up to that. So I had been that person, you know, until I finally said, I'm done. And that's when I started Story Fruition.

Minda Zetlin (03:15.106)
Yeah, it is.

Melissa Reaves, Story Fruition (03:34.189)
to help people become more confident public speakers. That's why we're, and look where we are today, right? Like, you know, we've met, you know, I've been coaching and now I have my podcast, I have AI, like there's a lot going on. Am I miserable at end of the day? No.

Minda Zetlin (03:49.868)
Yeah, and even, I mean, even doing something you love. I've been that person and I gave myself pneumonia, which was a bit of a wake up call. So yeah, there's, there, there's a lot to relearn about in that area.

Melissa Reaves, Story Fruition (04:04.099)
Yeah. So let's talk about storytelling a little bit. Let me just preface to the audience the way the contest works. So this is the National Speakers Association. We're the Northwest chapter. I was fairly new to it, but why not just dive in and be the producer of this show? Each storyteller had five minutes. Exactly. If you went 501, you were out. If you came in at 530 or four minutes and 30 seconds, you were fine. But they wanted people to not pass five minutes. So the stakes on timing were pretty high.

And every story was something that was true, something that had happened. There were no notes, there were no slides. And there would be three judges that were grading on a scale of one to five, one to 10, sorry, one to 10, on purpose, impact, and delivery. Like how did you use the stage? How did you use your body language? But what's the purpose of the story? Like why are you telling it? And what's the impact it's gonna make? Obviously, you did well.

You took it. You got first prize. I mean, I was so proud of you. So why don't we talk a little bit, we're gonna explore the story, but let's talk a little bit about why'd you sign up?

Minda Zetlin (05:04.237)
Thank you.

Minda Zetlin (05:15.457)
Well, so, when the signups came out, I knew that they were going to fill up quickly. So I realized that I had to make a fairly rapid decision about it. and truthfully, one of the big reasons I signed up, even though I think, I don't think this was great in general is that it was on Valentine's day. as you'll learn from hearing my story and as some people watching this may know, I lost my husband Bill last year. And so.

Part of my self-care now is planning for the days that are going to be particularly painful not to have him with me. And Valentine's Day is certainly one of those. So it solved a problem for me, right? It'll give me something to focus on on Valentine's Day. And as it turns out, I did spend Valentine's Day focusing on Bill, but in a more happy, constructive way than if I was just wishing he was here to spend Valentine's with me. So that was part of it. Another part of it is that

Melissa Reaves, Story Fruition (05:57.144)
Yeah.

Melissa Reaves, Story Fruition (06:07.415)
I have so many goosebumps going.

Minda Zetlin (06:15.402)
After he passed away, he passed away, again, you'll find this out when you hear my story, if you hear my story, that in an extremely abrupt and unexpected fashion. so I was really thrown for a very long time. And one of the things that happened is that I stopped speaking. I actually canceled an engagement I had because I just, couldn't do it. And this was my way of stepping back into it.

Melissa Reaves, Story Fruition (06:18.733)
Yeah.

Minda Zetlin (06:43.54)
So I signed up thinking both of those things and not thinking about actually some of the challenges that I was going to hit having signed up. And at one point I actually considered dropping out, which I'm so glad I didn't. Right. So yeah, it was a bit of a journey.

Melissa Reaves, Story Fruition (06:57.123)
Yeah, right. That was a part of that. That's true. Yeah.

Melissa Reaves, Story Fruition (07:05.177)
Well, and it's so understandable too. So like when that was happening, it was in December. So we all, kicked it off in November. And then in December, we had our first kickoff meeting as a cast. So I had 10 people, we ended up having eight, two just had things that showed up and they couldn't do it. I felt like eight was a really great number. But the story topic, so I talk about that in my book. I talk about scar stories versus wound stories. And the difference between the two is that

Time. Time is healed. And so there are little gems that a scar story offers. But sometimes you're in the story. You're still in it. And I think it would probably be fair to say that someone who's grieving the loss of their partner of 25 years is probably still in their journey of grieving and going through the firsts. You know, the first holidays, the first birthday. Like, it's not easy. It's not easy. And so to have maybe cold feet for a moment.

It made total sense to me. But something in you said to keep going. I'm gonna do it. Do you remember what it was?

Minda Zetlin (08:13.518)
Well, actually, so to step back for a second, you're right that I am only part way through this journey. That I don't know where, who I'm going to be when I get to the end of it or get to the next phase of it. Maybe there is no end of it ever. Losing your life partner, you know, I mean, that's a forever thing. So.

I struggled with what my story should be. This is actually why I thought about dropping out because you're right that it was a little early in terms of my own grieving process. As you know, the first time I practiced this in front of people, I just cried all the way through. And my...

one of my widow role models, which I have widow role models to see, like, how do you get on in life after something like this? Who is also a speaker said, you you can't heal from the stage. And it was essentially a warning not to do it too, too soon. And at the same time, I thought, how can I tell, can I tell a story that's not about Bill when he's all I really think about? And I couldn't do that. So, and that's really why I thought about dropping out and, but I didn't.

Melissa Reaves, Story Fruition (09:07.5)
wow.

Right.

Minda Zetlin (09:34.383)
You know, part of me felt like, there's a waiting list and maybe someone could make better use of this slot than me. But at the same time, you know, I'm not going to ask for, you know, my entry feedback and, know, I've, I've made this commitment. don't, I don't like backing out of commitments. Um, I don't, I don't like, I'm very, um, I tend to be a person who wants to finish what I start. So.

Melissa Reaves, Story Fruition (09:49.295)
Yeah, yeah.

Minda Zetlin (09:58.775)
I didn't really, I really didn't want to drop out. And there was not so much something in me as someone outside of me, Rebecca Murray, who was the MC for our event and who was the producer last year.

Melissa Reaves, Story Fruition (10:09.152)
Yep, awesome. We love Rebecca Murray, just so you know.

Minda Zetlin (10:14.522)
And she knew Bill, and as some of the people there did. I mean, that was one of the things about this. It was telling a story about Bill to an audience where many people in the audience had gotten to know him. In the last few months of his life, he got kind of involved in our chapter. And so, and that was part of the, part of what made it joyful for me was being able to talk to people who really liked him, didn't get a chance to know him very, very well, but really liked him, about him.

And anyway, so I called Rebecca and said, you know, I'm really struggling over this. And she, she did a very practical thing. said, well, what stories are you thinking about telling? So there was, there was this, the one that I wound up telling, and there was another one that was really didn't have a whole lot of substance to it, but there were the two that had come to mind. And she said, well, that first one doesn't sound like it's enough. the second one does. To me, it was a little complicated for me to even figure out how to fit it into five minutes. way before Bill died.

I wrote the story is about my having gone for a hike and getting lost in the woods four weeks before we got married. And I had written like a 1500 word essay about it. But that's, you know, I needed to somehow distill that down a lot. So I thought, can I even fit this into five minutes? But I decided to try.

Melissa Reaves, Story Fruition (11:34.394)
Yeah, well, and that's a part of the process. So I love that you really had to negotiate with yourself and be discerning on why you were going to do it. And every storyteller, I would say, needs to do that, right? Like, why are you telling a story? Why are you going to take five minutes of our time to tell a story? That's the O in Crow. It's the objective. It's like the Y. What are those stakes? You had all of that involved. And

Minda Zetlin (11:51.565)
Mm-hmm.

Melissa Reaves, Story Fruition (12:02.505)
when you decided to stick with it, you know, it's fine that it's eight minutes, 10 minutes, 12 minutes. I think I had one storyteller tell me it was 20. They had a 20 minute story when they first started because what's happening? You're literally, and I'm gonna encourage this to everyone out there, because this podcast is about teaching storytelling skills. So let's just go there for a second. If you have a five minute, you know, restriction, but at the beginning,

you are going to explore every nook and cranny of the experience, that's perfect. You can get it out, you you're exploring it. And then in the book I say, well, let's weed whack that thing now. Let's get the weeds out just so that we see the garden. And that's when you have to start to let go. And sometimes the weed whacking, my first story, my first story out on a stage was 11 minutes. I wouldn't let go of any scene. I was just like, what do you mean I have to let go of a scene?

I could have let go of quite a few scenes. So it is kind of one of those places. And sometimes, even when you edit, like we edited. Like when we were working together, when we got into workshop, we had found like a whole new way of maybe possibly starting the story. It didn't make it, it didn't stick. But it was kind of fun to find that scene and maybe it will show up later. You know?

Minda Zetlin (13:21.557)
Yeah, yes, I, you know, I was probably less, I was probably more relaxed about the time restriction than most, maybe people might be only because I did this in 2024. I did the last story, the first Last Story Standing competition. And in 2025, I did the Speaker Showcase, which was also very rigidly timed.

Melissa Reaves, Story Fruition (13:24.101)
You don't know.

Minda Zetlin (13:48.322)
And so I had been through this process a couple of times of taking something long and figuring out how to make it fit. And I felt like if it was even roughly in the ballpark, I, I, I had the skills to make it short. just change, you know, finding sentences I could jettison and just changing the phrasing of things here and there. So I was, I was a little bit less concerned about that. I was more concerned about making the whole thing make sense in the first place.

Melissa Reaves, Story Fruition (14:07.706)
Yes.

Melissa Reaves, Story Fruition (14:14.009)
Well, yeah, and again, that's the crafting. So we're working together, when we first hear it, we hear the rough draft, right? We see the skeleton, the bones to what the story is, and then we start digging around to find the mind movie moments. Like, where are the details that we can go into? Like, in your story, obviously, it's called Lost in the Woods. How to lean, what is it? How to lean.

Minda Zetlin (14:37.871)
I think it's learning to lean, was it?

Melissa Reaves, Story Fruition (14:40.823)
Learning to lean, sorry.

Minda Zetlin (14:44.273)
Because that's the message of the whole talk.

Melissa Reaves, Story Fruition (14:45.411)
Yes, learning to lean. Yes, and it's very relevant, but the story starts off and we will give you a few minutes to share the story, but it is in the woods. It is in the woods. So how do you paint the picture for the audience to get into the woods with you? You know, because that's what we're trying to do when you're creating a mind movie. You're not just telling a story. We're creating it so that the audience is there with you.

And one of those things is, and you did it so successfully, was you spoke in present tense. You said, know, the opening scene, you know it's in present tense, it's in the now. And the audience automatically, because we're very obedient in the audience where it land, we're like, yep, it's happening right now. But when you speak in past tense, everyone's sort of in the past, everyone's a little bit detached. was that something that you had done before, speaking in the present?

Minda Zetlin (15:39.664)
Actually, no. you know, and we wound up, some of us wound up talking about it in the one session that you weren't at that we were working on this. so I'm a writer professionally. so things like present tense, past tense, when to use which, and everything having to do with what words we choose are...

probably more top of mind for me than they are for most people. So I think about, and when I'm writing a column for ink or anything else, I think about present tense versus past tense and make really deliberate choices. So I thought, well, should every story be in the present tense? I'm not sure that I agree about that. Interestingly, we watched the video of the three contests. So the way this contest works is that,

Melissa Reaves, Story Fruition (16:29.657)
Yeah.

Melissa Reaves, Story Fruition (16:33.305)
Yes.

Minda Zetlin (16:37.783)
that after the chapter there's a regional level of competition. Three winners from the regional competition get to be on stage at the big NSA conference in the summer. so we watched all three of, so one of those three is gonna win the whole shebang. We watched all three of those. All three of them were in past tense, which I thought was super interesting.

Melissa Reaves, Story Fruition (16:58.935)
And I knew that and I was really happy because I was like with the new Mindmovie eyes because they had been trained now in the Mindmovie method and I was hoping that that would be something to do like, because here's the thing. I agree with you as a journalist. There is past tense reasons, you know, like the culprit did this, you know, you're not going to like if you're doing an investigative piece, you know, like, of course, it's going to be a past tense, but this is storytelling and it's a little bit different. It's a different medium. And so

Minda Zetlin (17:26.563)
Yeah, right.

Melissa Reaves, Story Fruition (17:27.235)
That's when I think present tense is super effective because the audience buys what you tell them.

Minda Zetlin (17:35.16)
Right. And I think it can be, I did think for this particular story, present tense made a lot of sense. So where I wasn't necessarily willing to concede that it should always be used, I did think that in this case it should be used. And it was a bit of, and I wasn't accustomed to doing it. So it was a bit of a, a bit of a learning experience for me. I know, you know, that one of the last in our last coaching session, I started out in past tens and was like, can I have to start again? Well,

Melissa Reaves, Story Fruition (18:01.921)
It feels different once you start to learn it. And but here's the thing, you know, in a story, you can have multiple timelines going to. So it could be like your let's say your story starts in the woods and then you are having a flashback of something with you and Bill. You would go into past tense in the flashback and then come back into the woods and go into present tense. That's sophisticated. That's sophisticated. Yeah.

Minda Zetlin (18:10.863)
Right.

Minda Zetlin (18:25.987)
Right, and in fact, I did do that, talking about our relationship up to when we decided to get married. So yeah.

Melissa Reaves, Story Fruition (18:30.659)
Yes, Irish tea.

Melissa Reaves, Story Fruition (18:36.569)
Yeah, so when we do the story, pay attention, audience land out there, because those are the strategic choices that she made as the storytelling artist that create the timelines. And so we're putting you on a ride.

Minda Zetlin (18:40.559)
Yeah.

Melissa Reaves, Story Fruition (18:53.837)
Right? But most audience people do not even know that that is happening. But with anyone who's listening to this podcast, obviously you have a curiosity about like, what is the science? How do you do this storytelling art form thing? Right? These are some of the things.

Okay, and the way for us to teach you, the number one thing in storytelling is this, show us, don't just tell us, right? So today, I'm gonna show you via Minda Zetlin. So how about we do this? Are you feeling warmed up, feeling good? I would love to invite you now onto the stage. I'm gonna step off to the stage a little bit here and let's hear your story. I will not time you. I will not be timing you.

Minda Zetlin (19:31.311)
It won't be timed. Okay, I can pause all I want.

Melissa Reaves, Story Fruition (19:34.19)
You can take your pauses and we'll just kind of then we'll come back and we'll talk a little bit more about the forensics of what happened in each one of those scenes or not all of them, but some of them. Okay, so you good? Let me get my screen up here. Okay, so everyone please welcome with your listening ears and eyes, Minda Zetlin in a story she calls Learning to Lean. Let me get you right there.

Minda Zetlin (20:00.867)
Okay, I see you, but it's me. Okay.

Minda Zetlin (20:06.543)
The second time my feet slip out from under me and my butt hits the ground, I face reality. This trail I've been walking down isn't a trail at all. It's too steep.

I'm lost in the woods, in the dark. It's a chilly September evening in Western Massachusetts in the year 2000. My flip phone is locked in my car, but if I had it, I wouldn't call anybody. I am not in the habit of asking for help. I am wholly self-sufficient. I do not lean on anyone. So.

taking my time because I know panic is my enemy. I work my way back up that steep trail, shining my flashlight on every likely tree looking for trail markers. And it takes a long time and a lot of trees, but finally there it is, that little green plastic tag. Thank you National Forest Service. I know where I am now. I head off in the right direction. And that's when I hear it.

coming at me through the woods.

It's Bill, my fiance. We're getting married in four weeks. But he can't come hiking with me. He has an illness called chronic fatigue syndrome. He can only walk short distances. Sometimes he needs a cane. Pain prevents him from sleeping through the night. And because of this illness, this once busy musician has lost everything.

Minda Zetlin (21:57.986)
except his capacity for finding joy in life. He wooed me with Irish tea and perfectly crafted songs, and the second time he proposed, I said yes.

Now I'm afraid he'll come into the woods to try to find me, something he's not equipped to do. Bill, don't come in here. I'm fine. I'm coming. Just wait for me.

Meeen da-

He can't hear me. There's nothing I can do but keep walking down the trail, just waiting for that moment when I'll step out of the woods, reassure him that I'm okay and he'll throw his arms around me and take me home. But when I do step out of the woods, he does not throw his arms around me. He stares at me angrier than I have ever seen him. Then I look around and my eyes grow wide.

Because even though it's after 10 PM, we are not alone at this trailhead. There's people, headlamps, dogs, someone planning a search and rescue mission to start at first light with hot coffee and I don't know, maybe helicopters. And Bill has made all of this happen in a couple of hours. I was a fool to think he would come into the woods by himself. He knows what I don't. None of us is wholly self-sufficient. All of us.

Minda Zetlin (23:25.677)
are connected. And when you hit a problem you can't solve, you use those connections.

I looked at him and for the first time I thought, maybe this is someone I can lean on. Maybe I can do it for life. And that's what I did. For 25 years, I leaned on Bill and he leaned on me and together we built a life full of music and books, travel, cats, adventure, friends, and then

May 2025. Early one morning, Bill is moaning in his sleep. It sounds like a bad dream, but when I try to wake him up, nothing happens. While I'm dialing 911, he stops breathing. Paramedics tell me he's gone. Heart attack.

And you know what I do? I lean. I use my cell phone. I ask for help. So much help from so many people.

And now...

Minda Zetlin (24:42.777)
People ask me how I'm doing and I tell them. Bill was the love of my life. I will never stop missing him. But I know that I'm not alone. So I am okay. Now I'm asking you, are you wholly self-sufficient or do you know that we are all connected? Have you learned how to lean? Thank you.

Melissa Reaves, Story Fruition (25:13.637)
I'm like, yay, clap, clap, hey. Wow. Wow. It's fun to watch you do it in different environments and whatnot. it really is such a beautiful story. Yeah, I mean, I wish you didn't have to tell it, right? Right? Yeah.

Minda Zetlin (25:14.979)
you

Minda Zetlin (25:27.705)
Thank you.

Minda Zetlin (25:33.357)
Me too. I mean the first part, but not the second, yes.

Melissa Reaves, Story Fruition (25:38.946)
But it is such a beautiful collection of your love story. And then the tragedy, you make us fall in love with you too. Right? When he comes out and you're thinking, he's gonna hug me, he's gonna love me. And then he's just angry and then you see the search and rescue. I remember when we were in that scene and we were crafting that, you know, it was like, it was very powerful. And then when you say, he pulled that together in a couple of hours.

Minda Zetlin (25:52.482)
You

Melissa Reaves, Story Fruition (26:06.959)
that says so much about his character and his love for you. know? Okay.

Minda Zetlin (26:14.093)
And it was, I mean, I think I said that then, what was striking to, so I always, there was never any doubt that he loved me. That was very clear from the beginning. But I, to take him on as a spouse, I felt like he, with all the things he had going against him in the world, it was a little bit scary. And I realized, my God, he's so resourceful. You know, he can, can.

Melissa Reaves, Story Fruition (26:16.634)
Thank

Melissa Reaves, Story Fruition (26:21.699)
Right.

Minda Zetlin (26:42.671)
create things out of thin air. And that was what really made me feel like I could trust him in a way that I hadn't thought that I could. Not that the willingness wasn't there, but the ability was there to really be a full partner.

Melissa Reaves, Story Fruition (26:54.309)
Yeah. Well, and it's a very natural thing. We should all be as discerning, if you will, when you're about to make a big decision like that, right? Like you gotta, you gotta weigh it out, you know? And not a lot of people do. Like they have their reasons and they didn't really think through the whole thing. that'd be me. Yeah, yeah. But it's just such a beautiful.

Minda Zetlin (27:03.064)
Yeah.

Minda Zetlin (27:13.999)
That was my first marriage.

Melissa Reaves, Story Fruition (27:20.129)
love story. Let's talk a little bit about now like the mind movie making. So you have a very fun opening, know, you're like, for the second time I fall on my butt, you know, this, this, this trail is too steep. Now, one thing I thought, and I think we talked about it was that was metaphorical in a sense, because I knew that you were out in the woods because you were clearing your head about getting married in a month and having been, and you're like walking on this very steep trail, you know, but

Minda Zetlin (27:49.571)
That wasn't a trail.

Melissa Reaves, Story Fruition (27:50.886)
It was, it wasn't a trail. You were just in the woods, yeah. But I could hear, could smell the pine. I could hear the crunching leaves, because you said it was September and it was in Massachusetts. I could feel it. How cold was it? Do you remember?

Minda Zetlin (27:55.586)
Yeah.

Minda Zetlin (28:06.511)
Um, it was chilly, so I had a fleece. I, you know, I'd been hiking, so I was warm from hiking. And then when I realized I was lost, I also had a big adrenaline rush and that kept me warm. But I knew that there was a time limit. So I felt comfortable, but I knew that I wouldn't forever because I also knew that first frost was that night, because it's Massachusetts. So, um, and...

Melissa Reaves, Story Fruition (28:33.418)
right.

Minda Zetlin (28:36.587)
north of, you know, whatever Western Massachusetts, it's in the northern, the northwest corner of Massachusetts. So, Vermont was right over there. so I knew from the weather report that it was going to go down to freezing and I was a little concerned about spending the night in the woods if it was going to go below freezing, but I was really hopeful that I wouldn't have to do that. But I had made up

Melissa Reaves, Story Fruition (28:44.197)
Beautiful target country.

Melissa Reaves, Story Fruition (28:55.331)
Yeah.

And then actually was a line that we had to weed whack due to time where you said I could make a nest.

Minda Zetlin (29:00.813)
Right, right. Yeah, and it was so right. I had, because it is true, it was part of my thought process. I was like being very analytical and self-sufficient and I was thinking, okay, well, if I have to, I figured in daylight I'd be able to find my way out. So if I had to spend the night in the woods while waiting for daylight, what could I do? And I knew that I had heard about people,

nussling down in pine boughs to keep warm. And I thought, well, you know, I wish I had a knife. I don't, but maybe I could break off some pine boughs and, you know, find a sheltered spot and build myself a nest. And interestingly, Missy turned that into a whole metaphor for my not wanting to come back out of the woods and get married. And I thought, and although that didn't wind up getting used, I thought it was a really interesting way to look at the story.

Melissa Reaves, Story Fruition (29:54.234)
Let's just for the audience sake, because we haven't talked about Missy AI. So Missy is my AI and all of the storytellers in this show were given access to use Missy as they were crafting their stories. So that's cool because I do agree with that. So she's trained in my book, she's trained in my voice. It's like I'm in the room with you. But that she's finding other stories that can be within the story, kind of fun. Kind of.

Minda Zetlin (30:19.853)
Yeah, yeah, she did. came up with, you know, I mean, the thing about this incident is that nothing about clearly there was something going on in my head because I know that I have a very, very poor sense of direction and which Bill used to make fun of all the time throughout our whole relationship. And I know that I am very susceptible to getting lost if I'm any place by myself.

And usually I'm extraordinarily careful to make sure that that doesn't happen. And this particular day, I started out too late, knowing it was too late. Then I kept going. This was a hike that had a very gorgeous view at, you know, at the end of the part that I was doing. It's a 37 mile trail and all. And I knew, okay, I know I should turn back. I know I should turn back, but I want to see that view. So that's how I really came to be out there way too late.

So that happened and then, and as I, and I knew that there were confusing non-trails tangled up with a real trail at the, in the first or the last, you know, depending if you were coming or going half a mile of the hike. And I actually had gotten on the wrong trail on my way out and had to have be directed by some other hikers as to where I was supposed to go. So I had every opportunity to know that this could end or, you know.

encounter me getting lost and confused. And I thought a lot about what led me to do that, but it was entirely unconscious on the day. You know, it was just like, okay. Yep. Yep.

Melissa Reaves, Story Fruition (31:54.052)
Yeah, well, you were in your head. You know, we've all done that. Like, have you ever driven someone you're like, I don't even remember driving, but here I am. You know, you can get so zen-like. Yeah.

Minda Zetlin (32:01.327)
Yeah, it was one of those. all the interpretations of that behavior has meaning, right? So all the interpretations of the meaning of that behavior have been layered on afterwards because I had no concept of anything other than, I think I want to go on this hike. We're going to be moving soon. Let me do it while we're still living in Massachusetts. You know, that was it. That was my entire thought process at the time, as far as I could tell.

Melissa Reaves, Story Fruition (32:30.233)
Yeah, but look at it like just that, just that's the thing is like you walked in one woman and walked out a different woman. Do you know what, in a sense, like when you saw him greeting you with the search and rescue team, you also did some really great listing in your story. When you said, when you're talking about he wooed you with English, was it English tea or Irish tea? Irish tea and perfectly composed.

Minda Zetlin (32:52.983)
Irish tea. He was Irish. England is the enemy. English. Irish tea.

Melissa Reaves, Story Fruition (32:57.121)
Okay, Irish tea, okay, Irish tea. And so we tasted tea and perfectly composed music so we could hear the music. And then you said we had the 25 years, and this is listing, this is listing, this is where you take time travel, 25 years. How do you explain 25 years when you've only got five minutes? Well, she did that when she said we was packed with travel, with books, with friends and cats.

And every single one of those was a tiny mind movie that sparks in our imaginations. You know?

Minda Zetlin (33:28.109)
And that whole thing was your suggestion as I recall and it was a really good one.

Melissa Reaves, Story Fruition (33:31.68)
Good, I'm glad. But that's how we get in. It's like a montage in a movie. Again, I call it a mind movie, right? But this is a montage. It's how you can pass time. It's through the listing, but take your time with it because the audience is hearing each word for the first time and they're creating that image in their mind. So we see you traveling, you know, so we see suitcases. Maybe you, I think I saw you guys on a boat. I saw you in Greece. I don't know. I'm just writing it myself, you know, like I'm, maybe you didn't go to Greece. You never told me, but I was like in my story, you went to Greece. And cats.

Minda Zetlin (33:55.503)
Mm-hmm.

Melissa Reaves, Story Fruition (34:01.599)
I love that you throw in cats, because I'm a cat person, you know, and it's, I saw you both with a cat on your lap. Friends, I saw you laughing at dinner tables and just having a great time, you know, and so all of those were beautiful ways for you to take 25 years and put it into five words and get through to the five minutes. that's interesting, 25 years to five words to five minutes, there you go. So that was great. But your message.

is the line when you said, all of us are connected. Right? That's like the essence of what you're saying. So I also want to explain to the audience, this is the National Speakers Association. These stories are hopefully going to be used by the speakers for their own keynotes. Right? Like this story could be in Minda's 45 minute.

keynote or this could be the essence of what she's going to teach in that particular keynote. I'm just kind of spitballing out loud. So it could be we are all connected. It might even be the title, you know, of a keynote, right? And so that's what she was doing at the end when she was asking, are you, you know, are you leaning in? You know, do you know if you're connected? Beautiful message. And especially, I got to say, I think, I think women tend to hold and shoulder a lot more.

But men do too? Men do too, but we do it, don't you think we kind of do it differently?

Minda Zetlin (35:28.505)
Well, yeah, we live in a society that pushes us to do it differently, I guess. I, certainly between me and Bill, I, he was the one who always, always thought to reach out to other people to make those connections. And I always thought, okay, I can solve it myself. I was an only child. He was the eldest of four. You know, I mean, you could all, that was actually a line that was in one of my early drafts to explain me and it fell on the chopping block of time. But.

I was an only child and my parents were both busy professionals and I wound up being on my own quite a lot and figuring out how to take care of myself quite a lot. And so that is my default. You the things that we learn as kids kind of tend to be our default if we don't do something about it. And it, it throughout, you know, really my whole life and it periodically during our marriage, Bill would say, you know, stop shutting me out. Stop acting like.

Melissa Reaves, Story Fruition (36:14.873)
Yeah.

Minda Zetlin (36:26.497)
You have to do everything by yourself. Stop. You have a partner here, you know.

Melissa Reaves, Story Fruition (36:30.822)
that's so beautiful. That's so beautiful. And you got to spend Valentine's Day with us, with the audience, but I...

Minda Zetlin (36:32.727)
Yeah.

Melissa Reaves, Story Fruition (36:39.715)
He was in the room, you know? I mean, it was really a beautiful energy. And now, you you can say you won, you know? And you're go to regionals, which is great, maybe nationals. You're on a journey still, you know? But every time you tell it, you're gonna be touching the hearts of other people. Just by the fact that there are other people who are gonna be like, I'm always shouldering everything. I never had give myself permission to lean in. This is where storytelling is so important, right?

Minda Zetlin (36:52.238)
Yeah.

Melissa Reaves, Story Fruition (37:09.639)
because her experience touches other people in the way that they need to hear it.

I always say that the audience that gathers is the audience that's supposed to be there. Don't worry about the, don't let the ego say, well, there should have been 400 people there. Don't worry about it. Those 50 that were there were the ones that you needed. That's just the way I try to operate. But it was really great. And I'm really proud of you. I know that it was a big journey. So thank you for.

Minda Zetlin (37:20.804)
Hmm.

Minda Zetlin (37:36.163)
Thank you.

Melissa Reaves, Story Fruition (37:41.731)
for sticking it through, you know, and trying new things too. It was a delight. Like the whole cast, it was just such a fun, special time.

Minda Zetlin (37:50.051)
Yeah, I actually think all the stories were fantastic.

Melissa Reaves, Story Fruition (37:52.494)
Yeah, well, our goal was we said this at the beginning, we're like, we're gonna give the judges a really hard time. And I think we did.

I think we did. I think that like first, second, and third were like very, very close. And I'm just really thrilled for everybody. So that's great. Okay. So thank you. And everyone remember your stories, your walking, talking story books. You're to hear me say this again and again. And develop your story library. Those little moments, know, Minda didn't know that 20 years ago, 25 years ago.

that walk in the woods would land in a story that she was going to tell today. So they're simmering inside us, ready to come out. And you pulled that off. So thank you.

Minda Zetlin (38:41.444)
Thank you.

Melissa Reaves, Story Fruition (38:42.233)
So please let us know what you think. Like, comment, share. I wanna hear from you because we want you to feel as confident with your stories as you're going out there into the world as a professional, as a personal person, as a parent, whatever it might be, your stories can help heal people as well as yourself. Okay.

Would you mind talking about, I'd like to do separate. So Carl, we're gonna, that's done. Carl's my guy. Yeah, so would you, is it okay if we just did like, just a kind of a manual, it's a little manufactured and we'll just, just tell me what you think about the Missy thing and how she worked for you. And if we use it, great. If we don't, no problem, not a problem. Okay, all right. So, so yeah, go ahead.

Minda Zetlin (39:08.121)
Okay.

Minda Zetlin (39:12.108)
I figured.

Minda Zetlin (39:25.998)
Do it.

Okay, now get you you had a question so good.

Melissa Reaves, Story Fruition (39:33.222)
So, Minda, during the process of Last Story Standing, every storyteller was able to use my new AI called Missy, because that's my nickname. I grew up Missy. And she's trained in my book and she's trained in my voice and she speaks 10 languages right now.

But it's a different experience for everyone. So how was it for you working with Missy? Like when did it work for you? When did you like, that might not work for me, because you are a writer. So just share what you think.

Minda Zetlin (40:04.471)
Yes, and I don't use AI to write and I feel like the world is constantly asking me to use AI to write and I never want to use AI to write because writing just comes really naturally to me and I don't need help. But so as far as Missy goes, yeah, it's really interesting and she does actually talk with Melissa's voice. I have not had a chance to test her on the 10 languages. I would love to do that sometime. But

It was super interesting. what she did, which for me particularly turned out to be both really interesting and a little bit challenging is she recreated her version of my story. And we did that a couple of times. And I don't know that that's the only way to work with Missy, but that's how we started out. And it was fascinating because she brought out themes like, I don't know if the...

If the people who are watching this will watch the podcast, but she brought out themes like, me building. had at one point thought about building a nest in the woods to stay warm overnight. she identified that as perhaps a subconscious desire to get away and not come back and, you know, build a nest and stay in it forever, which had never occurred to me thinking about the stories. So I thought, and it didn't.

wind up making it into, none of that wound up making it into the last, the final version of the story. But it was a really interesting view of it. For me, the particular way I do speaking is I don't ever have an actual script, I have kind of an outline. So Missy created an actual script, integrating that with the outline for me turned out to be a little bit difficult and I wound up kind of taking some of the ideas but not really taking her.

her work as she had created it. But I think that that's, you know, I think that that is particular to the way that I write and the way that I work as a speaker, because I know a lot of speakers do rely on AI when they're writing their presentations. And I think that if you were doing that, Missy would be a fantastic way to do that.

Melissa Reaves, Story Fruition (42:18.307)
Yeah. Yeah, thank you. I appreciate that and those notes and this feedback. This is how you grow as a founder too. So thank you and any founders out there. You know, the best thing you can do is have people really, really use your tools to see how it works. And I'm like you. I never script my storytelling. I never do. I go right to audio and I start talking to it. So she's not designed to make you give a script. She's replaying the story and allowing it.

to be used as a script for those that want that. She's there. But nope, you don't have to. You don't have to. But I just like that she explored some new ways for you to look at something. That's cool.

Minda Zetlin (42:51.875)
Yeah.

Minda Zetlin (42:56.259)
I mean, in retrospect, it might've been interesting for me to say, okay, Missy, take that and then now give it to me as an outline, which I didn't think to do.

Melissa Reaves, Story Fruition (43:02.517)
you could have. And you could have said, and tell me it in French. And she would have done it. I did that one day. I'm like, okay, now say it in Japanese. And like, she'd start writing in Japanese. Now, could I check that? No. But, it was pretty wild. Okay, great. All right. So thank you so much for that. And then Carl, we'll just make that as a part of our separate. So there we go. He probably loves it when I do that. So, all right.

Minda Zetlin (43:06.573)
Yeah

Melissa Reaves, Story Fruition (43:32.389)
Minda, thank you. do you you're going to get assigned someone soon, I guess, once we pay. Rebecca's working on that. Let me know if you any questions.

Minda Zetlin (43:34.333)
you're so welcome. Thank you.

Minda Zetlin (43:42.319)
Yeah, it's a whole thing because John said, I think, yeah, okay.

Melissa Reaves, Story Fruition (43:46.723)
I'm gonna stop recording, hang on, hang on, hang on. if I stop recording, I don't think that stops us. You know what, let's just keep going, because I don't want to lose you. Let's just finish it.

Minda Zetlin (43:53.38)
We'll find out. Okay, doesn't really matter. Nothing, I won't say anything super secret. John said that, and I think he's right that it would be in an ideal world, I would do the recording for regionals in front of a live audience because having an audience, you know, gives you some energy and some oomph that you don't have if you're just sitting there looking at a camera. However, the only opportunity to do that at an NSA Northwest event is

April 4th, which is friggin soon. and apparently in their schedule, I would get assigned to coach on April 1st, which means I wouldn't, I would have to do without basically, you know, I would basically have to say no, thank you to the coaching, which doesn't seem wise. So I don't quite know how. Yeah, I don't, I don't quite know how we're going to do that, but,

Melissa Reaves, Story Fruition (44:39.333)
Oh, I'd take it. I'd take the coaching for sure. I don't, you know what? I'm going to give my, I don't think for, I think it's fine if you do it just to the camera. I don't completely agree with it. I mean, yes, a night live audience is great, but this really, really matters. And you're going to probably need to do some retakes. And do you want the audience to have to sit there as you go through retake after retake? That would be my.

Minda Zetlin (44:58.541)
Well, and that's the other thing is if I just do it to a camera, I can be more relaxed about the timing because if I go over, we'll just shoot it again. So, yes, so that would be the other thing. that might be, you know, I also start.

Melissa Reaves, Story Fruition (45:08.847)
That's right. That's right. And you can still use Missy too in between this time though. Like you can so she can hear it. Just make sure you tell her I'm gonna be pausing. Don't talk, because we've trained her to not do that, because I like to use pauses. And sometimes she'd be like, Melissa, that was so good. I'm like, shut up, Missy. I was pausing for dramatic effect. Yeah.

Minda Zetlin (45:27.407)
Mm-hmm.

Minda Zetlin (45:34.531)
Right.

Melissa Reaves, Story Fruition (45:37.527)
All right, well, we'll get through that, but yeah.

Minda Zetlin (45:40.525)
Yeah, so I guess we'll all figure that out and then I'll figure out whether, well, not whether, but when to actually put this video out into the world. Because I do see where if somebody who was judging the regionals came upon it, that wouldn't be good.

Melissa Reaves, Story Fruition (45:59.354)
That's what I thought and I can hold this too. I just wanted to get it while we were still really like riding on the momentum of it. Like I'm not hesitant to run Brian's, you know, and I have been next week. So they're fine. But I did want to think about you, but I still wanted your story because the framework of this podcast is to take a story and then dissect it. So anyways, so we got that. All right. Well, thank you. Thank you. Thank you. What are you doing? Anything interesting this weekend?

Minda Zetlin (46:03.694)
Mm-hmm.

Minda Zetlin (46:13.871)
Mm-hmm.

Minda Zetlin (46:22.691)
Yeah.

Minda Zetlin (46:29.099)
what am I doing? So there's a, an open mic potluck that I think I'm going to go to tonight. There's so many open mics in my life. I'm still in this music community that Bill brought us into. even though, and, and I'm, you know, I'm sort of a musician around the edges here and there, but yeah. Well, this is, this is the bad one. It's my practice one, the recorder.

Melissa Reaves, Story Fruition (46:42.085)
That's good.

Melissa Reaves, Story Fruition (46:46.885)
Are you? What do play?

Minda Zetlin (46:59.567)
can't really do it in this position very well.

Melissa Reaves, Story Fruition (47:01.569)
wow.

Minda Zetlin (47:07.075)
But, and I sing and yeah, well, yeah, I think there's a lot of us speakers who like to sing. Yeah, so anyway, so I'm gonna go to that, I think tonight and then I may do line dancing class on Saturday morning. That's my new fun thing. But I also could see like not doing.

Melissa Reaves, Story Fruition (47:07.311)
Nice.

Melissa Reaves, Story Fruition (47:11.417)
You swing. good. I love to sing. love to sing. Yeah. Yeah.

Melissa Reaves, Story Fruition (47:26.661)
Good for you! Good for you! I'm doing improv.

Minda Zetlin (47:34.325)
as much this weekend just because I've been super busy lately. Indeed.

Melissa Reaves, Story Fruition (47:38.479)
Try to get a nap in. I try to get a nap in on the weekends. Yeah, I've got that. I'm doing improv tonight, so I'll be out till midnight because, of course. But yeah.

Minda Zetlin (47:46.492)
cool.

Minda Zetlin (47:49.955)
That, I think improv is, I've never really done it, but I've never really done it. I've never done it, period. But it does seem very fascinating.

Melissa Reaves, Story Fruition (47:56.492)
It's well, it's so funny because I should have now that we have like our cast is kind of a little bit of a community. I should have sell you all that I was doing improv, you know, because like I have a lot of people that will come out to see it because they're just curious. They're improv curious, you know, but I thought of that yesterday and I'm like, no, no one's going to do it tonight. And I know that Kelly is going to the Moth tonight. She's putting her name in for love hurts is the theme. And like, it's perfect. And it's five minutes.

Minda Zetlin (48:21.259)
right, she- yeah, what she has is perfect. Yeah, I need to try them. I need to try the moths sometime.

Melissa Reaves, Story Fruition (48:27.385)
Yeah, this story is very, well, you'd have to change your ending. won't work. Your ending won't work. The CTA won't work. But the reflection will. All the reflection will until you ask them. Then people in the moth would be like, what's happening? That would be the only part that's not mothy. But everything else is spot on.

Minda Zetlin (48:33.603)
Mm-hmm.

Minda Zetlin (48:45.551)
Yeah, I should probably go once and watch it or something. You know, I mean, I have heard the Moth radio hour, but...

Melissa Reaves, Story Fruition (48:48.163)
Yeah, alright.

Melissa Reaves, Story Fruition (48:52.611)
Yeah, no, the show is great and there's two a month. So we should really make that happen as a group. That's right, that's right. Bruce is trying to get it going. I just didn't like it. I think it was on thin ice. I have a new story. Anyways, we were going long, but thank you. Have a great weekend. And we'll work on this and then when we're ready to like look at it, but I probably will hold until after regionals.

Minda Zetlin (48:57.687)
I'm an NSA Northwest outing to the moth.

Minda Zetlin (49:13.24)
You too?

Minda Zetlin (49:20.847)
Okay, which I don't even really know. guess the deadline to turn in a video is May 16th. I don't know when they decide. I also don't know how many regions there are. I wonder if the fact that there three speakers at Influence means that there's three regions, but I don't really know.

Melissa Reaves, Story Fruition (49:29.317)
Mmm.

Melissa Reaves, Story Fruition (49:41.678)
I think it might be West Coast, Central, East Coast. And then how many chapters are within that, I have no idea. It's pretty big. alright. Yeah, it's a lot. Okay, thank you. Cheers. Bye.

Minda Zetlin (49:44.942)
Okay.

Minda Zetlin (49:49.584)
Thanks a lot. Great. Thanks a lot. Okay. Bye.